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In this episode of the Farm Equipment Used Equipment Remarketing Roadmaps podcast, brought to you by the Dealership Minds Summit, Casey Seymour of Moving Iron LLC talks with CoBank’s Ken Zuckerberg. discuss investment in agtech and the impact interest rates have on the ag industry right now before getting into automation and innovation. 

 “First, the fundamental or framework is that agriculture and food broadly are the last multi-trillion dollar industries that have yet to fully automate, right? So when we start with the thesis of what's going on and why do we care, that's where I would start. With robotics, and machinery, and mechanization, I think it's also very, very important for us to discuss that when you think about those step function changes in ag productivity,” Zuckerberg says. 

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Full Transcript

I am Kim Schmidt, executive editor of Farm Equipment. Welcome to Farm Equipment's Used Equipment Remarketing Roadmaps Podcast. In this episode, Casey Seymour of Moving Iron LLC talks with CoBank's Ken Zuckerberg. This episode of the Used Equipment Remarketing Roadmaps Podcast is brought to you courtesy of the Dealership Mind Summit. Let's jump in as Casey and Ken discuss investment in agtech and the impact interest rates are having on the ag industry right now. Ken says he's a big fan of when things change because once the adjustment happens and the market clears, it's usually a good environment.

Hello and welcome to Moving Iron Podcast. I've got somebody different than Tanner Ehmke on here with me. I got Ken Zuckerberg from CoBank. He's here to talk about what's going on in the overall market. Ken, so I don't go completely crazy on what it is you do at CoBank, you handle farm supply stuff and looking at input costs and those kind of things, micro and macro level, correct?

No, you're correct, Casey. You call it farm supply. I also focus on biofuel and then that broad category of innovation which, as you know, ag has been innovating for what, 10,000 years. You think about the innovation coming into the equipment piece and, yeah, it's a fun area to work on and a lot of exciting developments in it.

Right on. Okay. Well I'm excited to have this conversation with Ken. I've been looking forward to it. A lot of stuff, a lot of moving parts right now. Let's start with innovation here and let's talk about that a little bit. We've had a little bit of an issue with banking here over the last four or five months. A lot of different things have happened that were some big drivers in investment capital type banking that... With the Silicon Valley bank issue and... I can't forget the other one in New York. I can't remember what it was called but-

Yeah. Signature Bank right around the neighborhood for me. Yeah.

Yeah. You started looking at what happened with those banks and what their niche marketplace was. Looking at that, how has that affected what you see happening in some of these Silicon Valley upstart, venture capital, robotic type companies that are always hungry for capital when you're looking on the ag sector?

It's a very interesting question, Casey, and it's an even more fascinating question to ask. Where do we go from here? Maybe a little bit of a backdrop. We've had a lot of money that's gone into agtech since the old Monsanto wrote a check for just under a billion to buy that Climate Corp, which itself was a startup. We've had, call it, a decade of multibillion dollar investments across agrifood technology. Lot in food, lot in ag, lot in robotics. I don't have to tell you or your listeners, the digitalization of agriculture has been talked about for years, but precision ag is not exactly a new thing. I mean, we've had iterations of it.

But I think the area to explore with you is that as interest rates were going up and as we've had greater need to show profitability in some of the newer startup companies, there was a resistance, candidly, by those investors putting money into the venture capital to see some exits and returns. `The irony about venture capital is that if you raise money for a given portfolio investment at a higher level, it looks good. You have a readjustment on the post money value, but if you're not exiting and you're not cash flowing, ultimately, the value comes home to roost. When interest rates go up, you essentially have a higher discount rate which equates to a lower net present value. Unless you're doing something incredibly incremental, by definition, the net present value of those cash flows are going to be lower. Therefore, there's a valuation sort of ratcheting down.

I think we also, in agtech, had a little bit of a perfect storm because you have had some companies bleed their way into the public market by way of SPAC, but you haven't had that natural situation as perhaps we saw in the 90s and the 2000s, where for other industries, you have seed go to venture, venture go to private equity, private equity go to IPO, that didn't happen. You've had a lot of strategic purchases and then you've had a couple SPACs, but you haven't had that natural movement. I think where we are today, I would say that it probably less to do specifically, let's say with the issues that we saw at the Signature and the First Republic, but more the fact that the nature of venture capital investing has gotten a little more tricky with higher interest rates.

Yep. Yep. Okay. Second leads into our next question is now you see this higher interest rate environment where we're at, where it's like you just talked about, it's a lot easier to take a big risk at 2% interest than it is at seven and a half or 8% interest. A big difference there in what your total outcome looks like, and what your total cash flows, and those kind of things look like when you're dealing with a more increased value and especially when you're starting talking about hundreds of millions and billions of dollars that are getting tossed around in these various deals that you're looking at.

Do you foresee anything that you were looking at that should... I mean, obviously, the Feds had some conversations about, "All right. We're going to take a break here maybe." I mean, they've loosely tossed that around, but not necessarily said, "We're going to do it," but they've talked about it a little bit. But they've also said that, "If we do stop raising rates, we're not going to lower rates. We're just going to keep him the same for an extended amount of time." I guess so looking at the situation that we're in right now and what you just talked about, your long-term aspects of what you see happening with that, how do you think that plays into this overall spectrum?

Certainly, yes. I'm a big fan of when things change. Once the adjustment happens and the market clears, it's usually a good environment. What we've been talking about with customers for quite a while, and this is where, Casey, my background in investment management probably comes to bear a little differently than your average ag economist, the world had been very low interest rates for quite some time. When you think about portfolio management theory or, saying it simply, retirement assets, the idea of putting 60% in stocks and 40% in bonds, when the bonds are earning nothing or very low percent, they've taken a lot of equity risk. Now that we're moving up to 5%, and by the way 5% with maybe a prime heading towards eight, this is getting back to normal for those of us above 40 that can look back 20 years and say, "Yeah, I remember this."

What I would first say is this feels uncomfortable to people that were leveraged that were borrowing money at very low rates and thrown a few Hail Marys out there. But where we are today is the market and the financial system will be better off with a more balanced interest rate environment. Our view is that the equity risk premium will be more reasonable relative to rates. Now, that's the textbook. What do I think? I think that you're right, the Fed has moved aggressively. I think most of us would believe and suggest, even if it's hindsight bias, that they were late to the party but they haven't stopped. I think where we're moving up now, I personally think a pause is likely here at the June meeting. Interest rates staying at that level will mean moving towards equilibrium. Now the issue, too, weighing on money going into, let's say, agtech is even though agriculture tends to be less correlated with the broad economy, if there's worries about a recession, people pull their purse strings with respect to investments in areas that are risky.

I just want to play it straight with you. Venture capital is one of the riskiest parts of the capital structure. Hard stop. It just is. If you have recession beers coming, that also weighs in. The good news though, and I'm sort of a bad news first, good news second Casey, the good news is that it's Godfather 1. As markets reach equilibrium and markets start clearing and readjusting, then you have an interesting environment where people that are flush with cash, whether it be high net worth, family office, or those managers that are managing venture capital that waiting for opportunities, I think they come. I think they're here now.

Sometimes in venture, especially with, let's say, Silicon Valley Bank moving out of the market, you mentioned them before, Sili Valley out means that there is some structured credit transactions that some of the venture capital players can do at very attractive rates. When you have lemons, you make lemonade. I know this period is a little bit annoying to some, but I think those folks that are very prudent managers of capital, they're going to find opportunities. They'll either put the balance of capital to work that they have or they'll go out with a stronger story to raise capital in late 2023, '24. That's how I'm looking at this space.

Okay. All right. Let's jump over here to talk a little bit about, I'll say, on the automation side or the innovation side and talk a little bit about automation. This is something I've been thinking about in my head, and I'm not the smartest guy in the room here so forgive me, but I guess when you... I'm looking at automation, I think automation does two things. I think one, obviously, it takes care of the farm labor issue that we see out there. Obviously, it takes care of that if you have machines driving themselves or you fill in some gaps there with labor that you may or may not have. Secondly, is that it really levels the playing field, because I think some folks, when they're looking at their growth opportunities, if they don't have the labor, or the next generation, or whatever it might be coming back in, there's a lot of resistance and hesitancy to go out and try to expand because it's hard enough to do what we're doing now and you want to go add 25% more, 50% more, or whatever to it, you start running into that problem.

When you look at automation and you look at how farming is starting to move into different things, and especially crops, and the way cattle are raised, and all these different things come into play, when you start looking at that, have you given any thought to the fact that once the labor issue is no longer really at play anymore, it's just really comes down to access to capital is going to allow farms to grow at whatever pace they can afford to grow to? You think that's something that's on the horizon there?

Yeah, there's a lot of different layers to the onion. Casey, let me do my best to unpack it and then remind me of anything I forget to talk about. First, the fundamental, my sort of framework is that agriculture and food, broadly, are the last multitrillion dollar industries that have yet to fully automate. When we start with the thesis of what's going on and why do we care, that's where I would start with robotics, and machinery, and mechanization. I think it's also very, very important for us to discuss that when you think about those step function changes in ag productivity, the seed drill by Jethro Tull, the non rocker, a few years ago back in the 1800s, that was a game changer. The combine harvester moving away from horses, pulling plows into driving and then self-driving, and all the wonderful things that Deere, and Case New Holland, and AGCO, and all their associated brands, Kubota, many different high quality companies with different automated features. That, obviously, is there's a business case to doing that and continuing.

When I think about what you're talking about, let's just make an assumption that some of the robotic and autonomous tools will replace labor, but others may actually require labor but different types of skilled labor. Think about a drone for a minute where you need a pilot. You need somebody that actually has higher value added skills and technical skills. The way I think about it is I think robotics and automation helps. I don't think it's the silver bullet, but let's just say it will help and then get down to the dollar and cents. I think you're right, the companies that can justify whether their boardroom consists of mom and dad or a professional management team and a public style board of directors, if you're going to spend a dollar, a million dollars, or a hundred million dollars, you have to justify what is that return on investment.

I think the criteria is access to capital, but I think it's also expertise and access to that expertise so that you can really make a qualified prediction as to if we buy this in our operation and we restructure that knowing that some of the labor will be taken care of but others won't, then I think, yeah, there's no question access to capital is key. I think size is key. When I think about this, I don't necessarily think the average small farm is necessarily well-positioned. In fact, I'd argue the opposite. I think the trends are going towards more land, even diversified enterprises. I think about some of the smartest people around that I've met that, yes, they have a big operation in the U.S. but they also have investments in Brazil because they see that geographic diversification as well.

I'm in the camp, Casey, that I think it's not just the access to capital, but being large enough to have the access to capital, to have a CFO, to have a chief risk officer, and having county expertise and, candidly, civilian data scientists on premise because I don't think you're going to operate without that. I'll just make one other point to you, which I think you might find interesting. We're close to publishing a report, just laying out what's going on with cooperatives and their cost for property insurance. As you know, the past couple years have been bonkers with weather and climate-related disasters escalating and the cost of insurance, and I'm not talking about the federal crop insurance, I'm talking about insuring elevators, insuring equipment, insuring our house, insuring our car, all those things. The property and the facility type insurance, that's escalating and it's going to continue to go up.

I think, simply, how do you win in a commodity business? Well, you got to be a low-cost operator. How do you justify spending millions upon millions in insurance premium? Well, you have to have a bigger base of business. I think that's an interesting dynamic for both you and I to watch as the years go on, because I really feel like we're going to see a continued trend of, from a producer standpoint, larger more sophisticated farmers that are going to be asking the equipment companies and the dealers those tough questions about, "What you can do for me? Why it might make sense for me to buy this piece of equipment, or why I should rent it from you, or even contract and have you figure out what the technology does and come back to me with a proposal?" That's how I see the business.

No. I think, on the business side, I think you're exactly right. I mean, the complexity of these farming operations, as they grow, are getting more and more finite. I'm waiting for the day when you run across the guy who's got in his operation, in the family operation, where they've got a couple sons and a couple daughters or something like that, some sort of mix. "You're going to go be a lawyer, you're going to go learn how to [inaudible 00:15:42]. Everyone, when you come back to the farm, these are the jobs you're going to have." It's going to be very, just like you put, a professionally managed feel to it, not just a mom and dad boardroom example like you put in there.

Yeah. Listen, I spent a few years at Rabobank. Rabo has a great franchise with the American farmer as part of the farm credit system. CoBank doesn't lend directly in, but we lend to associations that also have, arguably, a phenomenal farmer-facing franchise. I think that, first of all, celebrating what got us here is... You have to start there. The moms and dads that farm that have six or seven or eight generations, not for nothing, but I think there is astute in risk management as some of the people I've worked with on Wall Street. They understand risk and they understand... They also understand nonsense, which I really respect. But the idea of where it goes from here, there's a interesting dynamic that a number of farm kids and farm families have told me about. There might be a son or daughter on the farm, and then as you said, somebody's a stockbroker in New York and a lawyer in California and a physician in Chicago, and those folks still have ownership but the people on the farm are actually running it.

It begs for, if you will, a little bit of a different approach to helping that succession planning or thinking about what the money is that you need to spend to be competitive. Again, not for nothing. I think that on the issue of global warming and climate change, I'm pretty straightforward on this. I don't like to argue about it because, in my opinion, the climate has changed. We're seeing that and we're seeing the weather patterns really very volatile. I think that if you're not thinking about that issue and what that issue means to supply chains, getting stuff, being able to ship grain out, getting fertilizer in, you have to take really a financial, a scientific, and then also a hardworking how do we operate type thought process to how you run your business. I would say that it's challenging, but I think there's opportunities for next generation farmers to step it up.

Sure, absolutely. I think this is one of those times where you've talked about, just like you talked about here, about the risk management side of it. The game's changing so much and how things are plugging along, especially when it comes to technology and how technology is either going to... I've said it a couple times on my podcast here, where I think this is the time in place where technology is going to start picking winners and losers a little bit. I think your availability to start looking at stuff like, we'll use John Deere See and Spray for example, when you get to whatever Generation 4 See and Spray looks like and compared to what it is today, if you're using the latest and greatest levels of technology now where you're really dialing in your input costs, and really dialing in chemical and fertilizer, and those kind of things that you're putting down comparatively to what Gen 1 looks like, your economy's a scale.

Drake just changed dramatically. How you're able to organically farm money back in and out of the operation just through efficiencies and savings, that this is one of those first times where I think technology's not going to be the same technology available to everybody based on seed technology, or fertilized technology, or equipment technology.

I think you're right. When we think about what it takes to bring folk back to rural America, there's an underlying story here that's pretty cool, which is if you have that grounding in how the agribusiness works, regardless of if it's crop or dairy or livestock, and you have an engineering degree, because mom and dad worked hard to get you there and you want it to go, you can come back with an entirely different perspective on how to go about investing in the business. I'm friends with the guys at Aimpoint that have the body work that they've thought about the farm or the future. I'm sure you heard some of it.

Yeah. They've been on here a couple times. It's people-

Yeah, no. They're good friends. I have a lot of respect for them. We, together, have a lot of respect for the American farmer. What I would say is what's amazing is the U.S. farmer really is the rural entrepreneur. I think that you have more bright women and men that are thinking a bit differently and growing. One of the things that Brett Sciotto talks about, the founder of Aimpoint, is that need for collaboration and that need for rethinking what your business is. Where I sit, I work with and CoBank lends to and we advise many of the largest then medium and small co-ops in America, so I'm always trying to make sure that they understand that the customer's needs are changing. If the customer is demanding something that is reasonable and you're not delivering it, then you have to be prepared to lose that relationship. That's not something that we want them to lose because their fortunes are tied to that farmer.

Yup. That's for sure.

We'll get back to the discussion in a moment. But first, I wanted to thank our sponsor, the Dealership Mind Summit. The Dealership Mind Summit returns August 1st and 2nd in Bloomington, Illinois with a focus on sales management. To download the program and register, visit dealershipmindsummit.com. Now, back to Casey.

Let's talk about input costs here a little bit, kind of shift gears a minute. You look at input costs, where they're right now, so you've got all kinds of stuff going on and just blend this into some geopolitical stuff too. But you look at all the stuff we have going on right now, when you start looking at oil and you start looking at what Russia's doing and they're selling oil, allegedly selling oil, selling oil at a discounted price, they're doing the same thing with wheat. They're doing a lot of different stuff out there right now because they're sanctioned and there's all kinds of things going on there.

You start looking at what China's doing and some of the opening of what they're doing. You start looking at input costs and how those start playing into those bigger geopolitical things. I guess the first question I'd ask you, looking at energy right now, we saw over $10 natural gas almost less than a year ago, and I think right now natural gas is trading less than it started at before it shot up $10. I guess looking at overall energy sector right now, and just from a very macro level here, what are your thoughts there and how do you see that influencing what we see in input costs moving forward into '24?

Yeah. When I look at the energy space, and obviously, I've been watching natural gas go down and fertilizer go down given the natural gases, the feedstock, and also natural gas operational input for production of lots of things beyond fertilizer, diesel prices are down, et cetera. The way I look at it is it seems to me that any market trades on its least common denominator. The stock market, I don't mean to offend anybody, but the stock market dumbs it down to the least common denominator that it can feel has some certainty, and then millions of professionals are trying to interpret minute to minute moves in different tea leaves, et cetera, but the reality is sometimes it's the simple things. If I think about energy and grain markets today, I would say that we had a lot of geopolitical tension. We have tight stocks that are just this tight, maybe even tighter since Ukraine is still fighting the war, but the market has gotten used to that.

With respect to energy, I think what the broader market might be telling us is, yes, U.S. GDP growth and we'll get a second reading on U.S. growth this week. That's obviously much lower in the first quarter than it was and what it was last year. China's growth seems to be sputtering a little bit. We still have lingering concerns about high inflation. I think what the energy market seems to be telegraphing right now is, well, if you have a recession, there's going to be less demand and prices are down. Now, are they at the bottom? I have no idea. Could they be? Sure. What do I think specifically about natural gas and fertilizer going out two years? I think that's a case of what you're challenging me on. There, I think that we have a gift in time here with these cheap resources.

Let me tell you why. With respect to natural gas, so if you assume that Russia and Ukraine, that conflict is going to go on for a while... By the way, the real war has been going on since they invaded Crimea. It's not really a one year and change war. It's what, since 2014. Russia played its hand on what they playing hardball with Europe. Once someone takes out the knife, you never forget it. I think the U.S. of A is going to continue to export natural gas to our allies in Europe. A, because there's a demand. B, it's good for everyone's economy and safety. Beyond that, we have to. We're not going to leave them in the lurch. Natural gas will compete with normal industrial production, fertilizer production, and now export demand.

If I look at the futures market and I check that nat gas a little while ago, the forward prices were higher than where they are today. I kind of feel that same way with fertilizer, because you're still going to have that demand. Unless we regulate away fertilizer, there's no question in my mind you're going to have demand come back. A number of the public companies have spoken about it. I look at a few years and I say I'm not sure what the level of equilibrium is, but it feels to me like it's probably a bit higher than where we are today. Now, what does that mean for grain prices? Well, grain prices have taken it down. I do a Monday morning briefing, Casey, which looks at commodity prices, what happened last week in the five days last week, and what's happened year to date. Grain prices have been down anywhere from nine to 25, 30%, depending on the contract and the commodity.

Sugar has risen. Everything else has seemed to be under pressure. We have pressure on the complex there. I think the irony about that is that some point, if corn is sub five and the universities are talking about breakeven at 480, something's got to give. I feel, and if you look at the John Deere stock price chart, Deere had a great quarter with 53% growth in large equipment. 30% overall sales growth, at least on a reported basis. The stock is trending down though, so it's almost telegraphing that there's a need for a rerate at some point, but it's a bit challenging.

Bottom line, input prices are reasonable now. I think, as the farmer, you have to be conscious of buy and low. As a co-op, you got to be conscious of buying low and selling higher. Maybe as an equipment company and a dealer, which is in the area that you spend a lot of time, I think you have to make the equipment and the value proposition compelling so that people can afford to either buy it or lease it at these higher rates. That's how I think about just input costs in general.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's talk on the geopolitical side, kind of looking at the grain stuff that we see happening. Russia renewed the grain corridor, Black Sea Agreement, for another two months. Everything that I've read so far about this really sounds like that the Turkish president, Erdogan, is the glue holding that thing together. Sounds like he has a very uphill battle to get reelected here, consider where he is at. If he's not reelected, it sounds like this grain corridor ordeal is a thing in the past. Now, Ukraine's made a couple statements say, "Hey. Well, you guys don't want to do that, that's great. We've got other ways to get our stuff out. We don't need to do that."

That being said, when you look at the grain corridor situation and you look at Ukraine's going to be somewhere around 25% of what they produced two years ago, which is half of half basically, and when you look at that and then you look at where Russia needs to get their grain out that they're selling to the world, allegedly, all over the place, that Black Sea is a key point in all of that. A lot of people are making it out to be like it's not that big of a deal but I don't see it that way. I see it as a major deal. If tomorrow, the Black Sea corridor is off the table and Russia goes and sinks a ship coming in there to some Ukrainian port, all of a sudden, price of wheat's $22. I mean, I guess what's your thought there?

Yeah. My thought is that it makes a lot of sense to be thinking about Turkey, and the election, and the leadership there as being the pivot point, or the flex point, or the danger point. Maybe that's another way to put it. I take a different view, and I'm a bit of a contrarian by nature, Casey, but I also like to think about each day, what am I not thinking about that might be going on? That little country called China, which has more influence than people have ever realized, and they continue to be a very shrewd operator on a lot of scales, I think they are probably, more or less, going to be the governor in this situation, because they know that you get to a point where they're going to be cutting their nose despite their face. It's not going to be good.

I have a feeling, regardless of what happens with the Turkish elections, I think China is going to be very vocal about trying to move towards keeping that open and some level of stability in the region. Somebody asked me recently what do I really think is going on. I think about that game, that board game, what strategy when we were kids. You had the map, you had the weapons, and the power, and the money all over the world. Well, clearly, if you think about the relative competitive advantages that some of our countries have, so the Middle East has always had the energy. Russia has resources, many of them. China has manufacturing competitive advantage. U.S. has lots of different cost of capital, AAA rating, the world's reserve currency. These are all our advantages, so why is Russia going to Ukraine? Well, they want to control more food, because if you control the food supply, you control the people.

That famous quote by, I think, Lenin, which is "every society is three meals away from chaos." I mean, it might be only two meals in Russia, in that area. They are attempting to get grain. Now, if they do that and they hurt China's economy because the rest of the world starts doing other things other than China, then we're going to have another little conflict on our hand. It's called China-Russia. I think in the scheme of things, and I'm a guy that believes in the efficient market theory, if the bigger gun is going to be harmed by that deal falling apart, China's going to act in their interest to make sure. I actually think Turkey may be less of a swing factor for some of these reasons. You're, of course, welcome to push back or tell me I'm crazy. It's not the first time I've heard that.

That's the first time I've heard that scenario and it makes a lot of sense if you think about it, because the last thing China needs to have happen is higher fuel costs and higher food costs based around the number of people they have and the situation, and especially when they're trying to ramp their economy back up, and the amount of inputs, food, energy, all the other things that are coming back into the marketplace, they don't need expensive oil, and high-dollar wheat, and rice, and all that other stuff to come into play there too. That does make a lot of sense. Xi Jinping, President Xi Jinping does have a lot of influence. Whether Putin likes it or not, he does have a lot of influence over what Russia does, and that you've seen that play out for a little bit from time to time in some of the discussions that you see between the two.

Yeah, and Xi Jinping doesn't need someone to taste his food every day, does he? It's kind of a little bit of a different comfort level there. By the way, can you imagine being that guy or that gal in that job every day?

Oh, man. I'll tell you what [inaudible 00:32:20].

That must be exhausting.

Yeah. That would suck the life right out of you pretty quick, I think, pretty quick. Well, you know what, I think we've hit the things I wanted to talk about. Ken, is there anything that you think that's out there that people should be paying attention to based around what you're reporting out there?

Well, I think that the issue with rising insurance costs and higher interest costs coming back in and still the labor situation, I think we have to be very, very careful about recognizing that after literally three very, very good years in U.S. crop farming, there's a business that tends to have a couple good years and a number of down years. I'm trying to think through how co-ops can manage through what appears to be being on the other side of the cycle. I'll circle it though back to where we started the conversation, which technology is a tool, and there are some really, really interesting tools available to see the U.S. farmer and the U.S. agribusiness system adopt more.

Even though nobody wants to spend money now, I think the bright business strategy is investing now for the future so that you can level out some of the volatility that's in this business and you have an ability to manage risk better than you're doing today. I mean, that's going to be pivotal. When you think about managing risk, you can think about the investment business or you can think about golf. The fewer the mistakes, the better the score. Period. A sort of another line of thinking about where we go from this point forward.

Yep. That's good stuff. Well, Ken, I really appreciate you being on the podcast. If folks want to reach out to you and get more information about what it is you're doing, what's the best way to do that?

You can find me on LinkedIn or Twitter. LinkedIn will be around longer, so use that one. You could also please go to www.cobank.com and choose Knowledge Exchange. Knowledge Exchange is where myself, and Tanner, and the rest of the research team all offer our commentary probably five, six times a year on various subjects. It's free. I'm not a give it away type of free guy, but we do, and we make it available to the Farm Credit System and literally to anybody that takes the time to go onto our website to do that, because I think there's two things you'll get out of it. First, a broad perspective of coverage. Second, when folks in the industry read our work, they often send thoughts back to us. To me, that helps me do a better job analyzing the tea leaves. Yeah. Please go to cobank.com and take a look around.

On LinkedIn, Twitter, you're @kenzuckerberg, is that it?

Correct. Yep.

Right on. Okay. Well, like I said, I appreciate you being on. I look forward to maybe another conversation sometime.

Great to visit with you today, Casey. Thank you.

Right on. I'm Casey Seymour with Moving Iron Podcast. Check me on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, @MovingIronLLC. Go to LinkedIn at Moving Iron Podcast, and check out the video version of this over on the YouTube channel which is the Moving Iron Podcast YouTube channel. Go to www.movingironllc.com for everything moving iron-related and all the information for the Moving Iron Summit coming up in Nashville, Tennessee, September 11th through the 13th. Good networking opportunity there, and we'll have some good speakers as well. With that, I'm Casey Seymour with Ken Zuckerberg. Let's move some iron, folks. Out.

Thanks to Casey and Ken for sharing their conversation with us. You can keep up on the latest industry news by registering online to receive our free newsletters. Visit www.farm-equipment.com. For Casey, as well as our entire staff here at Farm Equipment, I'm Kim Schmidt. Thanks for listening.