Editor’s Note: I’ve done enough salesman interviews for Farm Equipment over the last 21 years to brace oneself. They can often be one or more of the following: bragfests, airing of grievances against management, spewing of maxims from Zig Ziglar or other authors, or a monologue in which there’s no time for a second question. This interview was different and refreshing. As I’d soon learn from Brian Neuman and Larry Schamberger, both were cut from a different cloth; they backended into sales after long careers in the service department.
In the conference room of Vanderloop Equipment’s (VE) Beaver Dam location, salesman Larry Schamberger (who’d been with the company since the location’s origin as a Claas store in 2016) and newcomer Brian Neuman provided an up-close look at the iron peddling business in a predominantly hay, forage and dairy market — among the most demanding customers who have to get their crop cut and moved before Mother Nature changes plans.
Now that VE has more products to offer grain producers (Fendt and Horsch’s planter, application, seeding and combines), the pair have big growth plans. But they’ll also be doing so in competition with some of the best and well-known dealers in the business including Mid-State Equipment, Ballweg, Riesterer & Schnell and Sloan’s on the Deere side, as well as non-green dealers such as Ritchie’s, Service Motors, Johnson Tractor and McFarlane’s.
Brian Neuman (left) & Larry Schamberger (right)
Years with Organization: Neuman: 5 Months (30 years of experience in ag dealerships in Case IH and AGCO dealerships); Schamberger: 8 (veteran of the trucking industry). Both came up through the service side.
Role: Working out of the Beaver Dam location, both are generalists, meaning they’re responsible for all products. About 80% is customer service (including being out in the field for planter and seeding startups) and selling, with 20% going into trade evaluations.
Quotables: “In the truck world, a salesperson described himself as ‘protecting the customer from the OEM and OEM from the dealer.’ As an ag equipment salesman, I also believe I’m protecting the customer from the dealership and the dealership from the customer. It’s got to be fair for both because neither of us can stay in business without making a profit. And I don’t ever want to sell a piece of equipment to a customer who can’t afford it because I don’t want to sell one piece of equipment; I want to sell them multiple pieces over many years.” — Larry Schamberger
“We all joke about the cliche, but we’re solution providers. When we’re on our A-game, what we’re really doing is giving advice, even about some other product or application. That advice often doesn’t help in the near-term, but often does the next time he needs something. Getting the signature on a $500,000 deal is the easy part, getting people comfortable with you and the process or the business is the hard part.” — Brian Neuman
Schamberger was a farm kid who cut his teeth in the truck dealer business before arriving at VE. Meanwhile, Neuman, on the job for just 4 weeks at the time of the interview, is an ag equipment dealership lifer, as his dad owned and operated his own dealership until 2004 and recently retired after 55 years as a salesman.
Both were techs first; Schamberger due to his interest in fixing things (‘I never thought I’d be a salesperson but my employers pulled me in that direction’), and Neuman by design. Any employee who dreamt of a sales career at his dad’s dealership first had to commit to doing overhauls in the shop for 8 years.
Schamberger is even known to help the customer laying down a personal dare. “I was advising a customer about the equipment and he handed me the wrench. Some guys in the sales world would laugh it off, but I grabbed that wrench and changed that solenoid for him.”
Schamberger says the life of a salesperson is about making those connections with the customers, which is often their first exposure to the company. “We maintain those relationships with the customer and a lot of times need to smooth things over when things go awry, or repairs go a little bit higher than they were expecting.”
Uniqueness of VE
When he arrived at VE, Schamberger found the Vanderloops run the business much like what he saw in the truck world. It was an easy transition, he says.
Neuman, meanwhile, saw other differences he was pleased to sink his teeth into. “When you sell red or green equipment, sometimes the brand sells itself,” he says. “One of the things that attracted me here was how much more service-oriented VE is. Every dealer says it’s service-oriented, but these guys really do it.
“We don’t sell the most mainstream product, and Fendt, AGCO and Claas are not typically one’s ‘go-to dealer.’ Plus, cost is ‘where it is’ with choppers. So, we’ve got to earn it and be more than a price giver. Everyone here preaches uptime and service, and they do the work to prove it. There’s a real pride in the chopper business here and we intend to extend that to tractors and planters too.”
Controlling runaway expenses is paramount in this business. But Neuman has already noticed a change in mindset. “The first question asked by VE when a customer is down isn’t ‘how much something will cost to fix it?’ but ‘what do we need to do to help the customer today?’
“As soon as the problem is ‘shot out of a cannon’ around here, we’re already on our way to figuring it out. That first priority is to get him up and going,” he says, noting that discussions about driving or flying in a part, getting a rental out there or stealing from another unit to get one out to the farmer are voiced in quick succession.
Neuman has observed other dealers getting twisted up over the hours involved in a fix and how to justify $425 in labor charges. “Here, it’s a mentality of “Let’s get this thing figured out to get this customer going” and let the chips fall where they may. It’s a customer-first mentality.” And the approvals from the Vanderloops come in tens of minutes, not hours, adds Schamberger.
The Elevator Pitch
When asked about the “elevator pitch,” Schamberger first talks about what VE won’t do. “We’re not going to go in and try to knock money off just to try to get the lowest price. We provide superior service. We don’t charge service call fees or trucking during the warranty period. For many parts, we won’t charge freight on all of our parts. Only in emergency special order items will we pass on freight to the customers.”
But, he says, they lead with the knowledge of their shop guys. “As Brian and I get to know the machines, there’s a lot of stuff that we’ll be able to answer so the customer can check something and get it resolved without having to wait for somebody to come out. But Carey, Robb and Mark have made it clear we won’t be a dealer that says, ‘Just sit there and wait until we send a technician out.’ We’re going to try to diagnose the problem over the phone, so if we need to send our tech out, he’ll already have an idea of what’s going on.”
Techs: The Salesperson’s Best Friend
Salesperson Brian Neuman is the first to admit most mechanics, by their nature, like to pick on the sales guys, a fact of life in most dealerships.
But despite the ribbing that goes on, both he and sales veteran Larry Schamberger know that the techs are the best friends they have to succeed in their work.
Both “grew up” as techs themselves, so they have a first-hand appreciation of the skills needed to fix machinery. Schamberger makes it a point to speak with the techs each day.
“Technicians are the ones who really know the customer; they’ll tell techs things they’d never talk to a sales guy about. I like to know what the technicians think and know and give them an idea of what I’m doing with which customers.”
He says they all know what he’s doing each day since he usually starts his day at the store. In Schamberger’s office, you’ll find a kid’s workbench and tools, presented to him for his reputation of “making suggestions” to the techs about their work.
Trust Facilitation. “The key to open information sharing is trust,” says Schamberger. “They need to trust me, and I must trust that they aren’t passing our conversations back to the customer — particularly on a piece with a known issue, so they don’t ask later why we took on a problem. A couple of technicians came from John Deere, so they know a lot of these customers that run green equipment, and they know which models have issues. Or they might know that a farmer had a given tractor brand or a specific problem in the past and be wary because we wouldn’t want that piece.”
These are not the kind of conversations that end up in a CRM for all to see, but stem from Schamberger physically walking out to the shop and visiting with techs. It’s just like the relationship you build with the customer. At the end of the day, there’s got to be trust.
Neuman, the newcomer, also says he can use VE’s service and resources to stand up against John Deere. “I found out yesterday that we were pricing against John Deere and that having our own truck for hauling was important to this large farmer. Hauling was one of their hangups since they have a 16-day window to plant 10,000 acres of potatoes. He flat-out asked me, ‘If we break down, do you have your own trucks to get this stuff in and out?’ I told him priority one is to get it picked up or get it back when it’s repaired.”
It was just one talking point in the sales pitch, but Neuman says fewer dealers have their own semis on the road nowadays. It sounds simple and little, Neuman says, but this customer didn’t want to have to drive equipment back and forth to the dealership.
Sales Truths
In addition to the “Trust Building & Other Sales Secrets” article (see web-only article), the pair was asked about a fundamental sales truth they’ll take with them to the grave.
Schamberger says that one of the tenets he learned in selling trucks was identical to what Carey preaches. You can’t force someone to buy a product. You can give them the information, but they have to want to buy it.
“If you force somebody, it’ll never end well because as soon as there’s a problem they’ll say, ‘You told me to buy this.’ We give them all the information and the benefits of it, but they’ve got to want to buy it,” he says.
Neuman recalls the words he heard many times from his dad. “Dad used to say with regard to trades that the ‘best deal you made is the one you didn’t get.’ He was stressing that we shouldn’t try to dig our way into a deal; sometimes you just need to cut a deal loose.
“It always resonated for me because we have situations where it sounds too good to be true, or the guy’s rushing it or he’s pricing 5 different places. And then, all of a sudden, the guy trades in the tractor and the transmission is a total mess, or the guy is the hardest customer you’ll ever deal with and one you never make happy.”
Sales Misconceptions
A mission of this dedicated “Dealership Minds” edition is to inform others what each of the cogs in the machine does daily. When asked what their colleagues think sales does, Neuman jokes “They think we go find a quiet rural road, pull over and take a nap under the apple tree.”
Neuman adds that the perception of the “lazy salesperson” is rarer today, but he says techs would be surprised to hear what he and Schamberger talk most about in their sales calls. “It’s not only about selling that product, but we’re actively selling the service side. That’s what’s most important when a farmer has a small window and has to be ready. I let them know our techs routinely work the odd hours to keep them going.”
A Good Day: Entering the Circle of Trust
Salesman Larry Schamberger was asked about his “best day” at VE. “The very first $1,000,000 forage harvester I sold was a good day. But I’d also say just getting to know the customers. More so than in the truck world I came from, the ag business is about building friendships. But beyond a big-ticket sale would be talking to the guys, getting to know them and all of a sudden be invited to celebrate at their kid’s graduation party. You know you’ve made a good impression when the customer wants me to come to his family functions.”
The cliche about sales selling the first unit and service selling all subsequent purchases is true, Neuman says. “That is what our industry is about, especially when equipment is $800,000 to $1 million. Guys are keeping combines 5-6 years now when they used to turn them every 2. Another thing many may not realize is how lonely the salesman’s job can be. You’re trying to interact with farmers, but you’re out on an island while you’re in your truck trying to drum up business. So, coming back and talking with the guys in the shop is important.”
Must-Haves in Salespeople
Farm Equipment asked the pair a question that, based on other interviews, is not outside the realm of possibility given VE’s growth plans. They were asked: “If Robb, Mark and Carey call you in and say, ‘we’re about to double the number of stores tomorrow and need you to quickly hire your own replacements,’ what would you do?”
Neuman’s preference would be to take a parts or service person and teach them the sales end. “These guys can walk the talk with farmers and that’s the biggest thing to get up and running.”
Schamberger agrees the best salespeople came up through parts or service. “There are already enough sales guys in the industry who’ve never worked on anything; never even looked at the part. They might be good talkers, but they can only do so much reading to understand how the piece works or answer basic questions about it. If I had to find somebody to do the same thing, I’d look for someone who worked in service or at least possesses basic mechanical knowledge. Parts people also understand how things work.”
Neuman adds that ag-specific experience isn’t necessary as long as one understands mechanics. But he’d demand that his replacement understand proper follow-up, one of the worst raps that can be attached to any ag salesperson.
“I might be a little OCD when it comes to preparation and focus too much sometimes on analytics, but you’d be surprised how poor the average follow-up is. We must get back to the customer — even if we don’t have 100% of the answers — to let him know we didn’t forget about him. That’s one thing we hear all time: ‘Are you really going to give us a price; are you really going to call back?’
“That perfect salesperson would have the mechanical background and the follow-up.”
Regardless of who is hired, the pair says it’s easy to teach the product lines and where a product best fits or doesn’t. But the list of traits that cannot be taught is significantly longer:
- Telling the truth
- Preparedness
- Punctuality
- Urgency
- Desire to interact professionally — showing up and following up
- The need to personally deliver bad news to customer when necessary
- Accountability vs. excuse-making and blame-passing
How Upper Management Relates to Sales
When asked about the 3 Vanderloops they work for, their “approachability” echoed several times. Schamberger cites his approved request to go to service training from Horsch, even though it was meant for techs. He wanted to do better with startups, and the Vanderloops didn’t bat an eye at funding him.
Neuman points to the appreciation the Vanderloops have for their eyes and ears to the customer, and asking for sales input. “A lot of times in business, you don’t really have the owner’s ears. If something isn’t sitting right, we can talk to them.
“On a trade value, for instance, I’m welcome to say if I think we’re way off. A lot of places you can’t do that; they might scoff at you. But here, they’ll ask why. They might think a trade is worth way more money and we need to tap the brakes. Sometimes you need to save ownership from itself too; they can want to win a deal badly and make a poor decision. I came here wanting to work my own deals, right or wrong, and to have that open conversation — and they’re OK with that.”
Schamberger says the trio take calls at any time of the day and won’t get twisted up by politics or chain of command as long as all efforts are on the customer.
The pair agreed that all 3 of the Vanderloops had different personalities. Schamberger took a stab on describing them:
Robb – is the guy for any of the Fendt equipment. He knows all the equipment inside and out as well as the cost picture, but his expertise is Fendt.
Carey – is the guy for Claas and Horsch equipment. He’s the type of guy who loves going on customer visits, especially when you’re doing a demo or a startup; he likes the interaction with the customers.
Mark – is following the same path as Robb but has better knowledge of the other lines. Like Carey, he also likes the customer element and being on hand for the demos and meeting customers.
Neuman adds, “Carey is loose and free-spirited. He can fly by the seat of his pants and say, ‘just do it.’ Robb and Mark are more reserved. But you need that balance in a dealership — to keep things in check. You can’t have go-go-go all the time from everyone, and you need the bookkeeping disciplines to keep everything straight.
“They’re dialed-in. I’m working on a deal now and asked for input. Mark asked one question and then Robb and Carey got back to me, too. There were 3 different questions and perspectives they brought to the same deal. It’s interesting to have the different dynamics, but the commonality is the focus on the customer.”
Conversely, what would they not stand for? For Schamberger, it’s a simple answer – they don’t tolerate lies or stealing from the company.
Neuman adds: “They love their product and are proud of their product and the dealership. If someone were to say they misrepresented it or questioned their commitment to the brands in any way, you’ll see them jacked up. They’re passionate about the products they sell.”
Demos Can Win a Bad Day
In addition to asking about what a “good day” looks like, they were asked about their toughest days.
Schamberger points to the lost sale you thought that you were going to get and that demo that occasionally goes horribly wrong.
Neuman agrees. “Product failure is my biggest pet peeve. I lived through some bad product years, and that’s why the service side is so important. I’ve had instances where a product failed, and you can’t believe it because you’ve been pumping up the product and it fails because some guy at the factory didn’t do his job right that day.”
Through that same questioning, Neuman shares a story about how problems turned into gold. “We finally got a combine demo arranged and were ready to show it off. My service guy and I were at the farm watching it and, all of a sudden, there’s a haze. It turns out it blew a hydraulic line, and it was shooting oil straight up in the air — on a brand-new combine.
“We waved the operator to shut it off because there was a plume, and when we got out there, we looked at each other and had to laugh, and so did the customer. We ran into town and bought all the buckets of brake cleaner we could find and wiped the combine down. Ironically, the customer wrote us a check for the combine in the field that same day.
“He said, ‘I am going to tell all the neighbors that you guys got me up and going, had service trucks here, put an O-ring in to stop the problem and wiped it all down.’ Had we not gone the extra mile, that demo would’ve gone sideways quick,” Neuman says, adding that he threw in a full detail.
Schamberger adds that surprises will happen in the mechanicals of any brand, despite multiple PDIs and doing everything right. At some point, something odd will “just happen” after 20 acres. “If you’re going to have something happen out there, it comes down to how you react and what you do to resolve the problem.” The reaction time is more important to the customer and what he wants to see — more so than the equipment operation itself, he says.
Dealership Minds: Vanderloop Equipment Introduction
Dealership Minds: CFO & Co-Owner: Cashflow Rules The Day
Dealership Minds: Sales Manager & Co-Owner: Guiding Sales, Finding New Markets
Dealership Minds: Technology Sales & Co-Owner: Learning from the Past to Move Forward
Dealership Minds: Lena Store Lead: The Power of Personalization
Dealership Minds: Parts Department Lead: Customer Communication Key to Success in Parts
Dealership Minds: Beaver Dam Sales: Techs are ‘Game-Changer’ in New Wholegoods Sales
Dealership Minds: Service Department Manager: A True Passion for Customer Service
Dealership Minds: Service Department Lead: Service: Beyond Just Repairs
Dealership Minds: Parts Lead: Parts Department Brings New Challenges Every Day
Dealership Minds: Brillion Sales Reps: Building Relationships Beyond the Sale
